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Old 05-07-16, 12:19 PM   #1
stevecraig
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Default Early Lister J?

Hello there I got a lister I think is a J? Unfortunately the id plate is missing the flywheels have the number 2147B cast into the wheels and the number: 3501 stamped into both wheels. The cylinder has 2101B cast into the bottom edge also the base has the no:21003 cast in cane someone give me a date of manufacture? And HP. Thank you Steve Craig.
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Old 05-07-16, 09:00 PM   #2
Scott
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Hello all
The information I give below may be wrong. If it is, I would hope someone corrects it.
It is information I have deduced from our late mate David Edgington's book entitled Lister Engines Types H to R. It is well worth buying to glean information on the history and developmental changes that continually happened to these engines.

With the flywheels, the first number is the HP rating and the letter indicates the series of flywheel. A was the first and B took over in a short period of time.
The cylinder appears to be one of the first series with 2101B cast in it. It seems a little out of place. It must of been one sitting around and needed to be used up. J9 cylinder should have been on it but that's not saying 2101B was not on it when it came out of the factory.
Has it got a 1-1/2" crankshaft and an internal fuel tank?

By the numbers it is an early 2-1/2hp J made in late 1911-early 1912 (#3287-7/1911 and #4182-1912).

Pictures are always good if possible

Cheers Scott
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Old 06-07-16, 02:19 AM   #3
stevecraig
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Thanks Scott wow I didn't think it was that old. Il try and get a few pics up in a few days I had a quick look at the engine last night, I don't think it has a internal fuel tank it doesn't seem to have any filling point, at the moment is fitted with a small non original fuel tank and a later model rotary magneto and the engine runs nicely. also the number cast on the engine base i s : 2100B not 21003 and the crankshaft is 1 1/2" dia
Thanks regards Steve
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Old 09-07-16, 07:12 AM   #4
stevecraig
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A couple of pic of my little lister J
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Old 09-07-16, 07:34 AM   #5
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Have to hunt for a Bosch Type 22 Maggy and fuel tank
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Old 10-07-16, 08:34 AM   #6
mervyn cloake
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Hi all,
I have an early Lister S/n 2881 2 1/2 hp Jan 1911 The cylinder on this engine is quite different with the pattern number 2010B and "The Lister" is not cast on the head The counter weights are in the hub. An other early engine S/n 3006 is exactly the same.
I believe that very soon after 3006 possibly before S/n 3020 there was a change to the more conventional Lister as we know them.
Steve's engine with that S/n is likely to be all original. The only question I have is possibly the base as I see there is a chain guard. As all my Listers are all early with flick mags I do wonder if the base is from a later engine, but as I don't know how the the chain guard is attached I can't say if that is the case.
Here is a photo Of my engine. It doesn't show much detail due to shadow

Merv.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 10-07-16, 09:20 AM   #7
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That engine is all correct apart from the mag and drive. The chain guard is home made. The flywheels, whilst having the weights around the rim are not the same as later Listers as the weights are between spokes and not either side of one spoke as it was later on. An easy spot on the base is if the bolt lugs are on the corners, its an early type, if the lugs are down the sides its a series 2 engine.

HTH Mark
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Old 10-07-16, 09:21 PM   #8
mervyn cloake
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Mark,
Undoubtedly you are right. Scott thought the cylinder and head was the first series. But we won't get confused with the very first Listers with the fuel tank in the base. What I was trying to point out is the Cylinder on Steve's engine is not the first and as I said the cylinder and the Hub counter weight changed sometime after S/n 3006 March 1911 so that one and my one is a variant that is in between.
Not having Davids Latest book on H to R I don't know a lot of the detail on the changes.
The mountings didn't change until at least 1918 This is based on my own observations. But I don't know about the counter weight changes on the rim, and I cant tell where the weights are on Steve's engine. Does Davids book explain this in more detail?
Merv.
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Old 11-07-16, 01:22 PM   #9
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Mervyn, I was replying to you post above re base and chain guard, sorry I'd not made that clear.
Regarding the parts,
Cylinder. 2101b is listed in the book as the original type, however the first spec201 engines used a different cylinder with a lifting eye. This may or may not have had a part number cast in. It would make sense that this was part 2101 and the revised cylinder 2101b. The book states the next cylinder as part J9 used from engine number 2875-5357. Taking Steve's engine number as 3501 then this should have a J9 cylinder as per Scotts post above. Listers did like to build budget engines. When the Ricardo patent cylinder and head came out, many engines were still turned out with the older fixed head cylinder at a reduced price.

Crankcase, is the original type 2100b. Although there are no engine numbers listed, the text refers to a change to crankcase J1 whilst the sliding cam governor was still in use.

Flywheels. 2147b used prior to engine number 2875. Again it does not differentiate between the very early type with weight in the hub and the slightly later ones as fitted to Steve's engine. Maybe you could check the flywheels on your engine Mervyn please for a part number?

From the above I would suggest this is a mid 1910 engine, returned to the factory under warranty due to problems with the sliding cam governor, rebuilt and issued with new number before sale in mid - late 1911.

Mark
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Old 12-07-16, 06:36 AM   #10
stevecraig
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Hello all and thanks for the replies, interesting to see how engines where sent back to the factory and modified and re issued with new numbers, which might explain this : on each flywheel up from the keys there is a old number that has been scrubbed out and I can't make out the four digit number the present engine number 3501 is stamped just back from the old number.
Here are a few more pics , might help someone else down the track
Steve


This number is on the bolt that holds prime lever

This number is on the base


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