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Old 05-11-15, 10:47 AM   #21
Tezfair
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The 1950 limit still applies however the marshal now also runs other rallys so the same rule applies, not just at Launceston.

So far it's not been an issue for me as I have been taking other engines (I like to show one engine throughout the year in rotation), however I will want to take the SoM in the future so will have to make a fake board up.
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Old 05-11-15, 12:57 PM   #22
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Although this is an old thread, and the subject has been discussed before, it still raises interesting questions...

Why the arbitrary pre-1950 limit?

1. Presumably to keep more modern machinery with less eye-appeal out? I say less appeal, because some more modern stuff can be equally interesting (and equally rare!) but perhaps draws less attention from the paying punters.

2. Related to above; is it to make the display more interesting? There are far too many exhibitors who have some wonderful exhibits in their collections, but are quite content to "entry ticket" with a strimmer engine!

3. Is it needed because there is limited space and some method of sorting the exhibits is required? It's a rather "blunt edged sword" but it's one way of keeping the numbers down.

Is pre-1950 really such a challenge?

1. The vast majority of the venerable Lister D-types were made before 1950, along with A/B-types, Petter Ms & As, and so on. I can't see that this is really such a problem.

Is the Marshal "flexible"?

1. My experience has always been that where entry criteria exist, the marshal will immediately bend if the exhibitor is a junior - and quite right too.

2. I have also found that talking to the man usually gets the desired response. If you can pursuade him that despite its youth, your engine is interesting/attractive then I'm guessing you would be "in".

Is there another way?

1. Yes there is - but you'll like it even less! At some shows the marshals judge your offered exhibit, and decide if they want you or not. If you are turned down then you are almost certain to be offended - you're not good enough to "join the club". In reality the man is just trying to provide the very best exhibition that he can.

2. Yes - let everybody in, regardless! If you have enough space then why not? Well, for one - because rows of strimmer engines are not interesting, and reflect very badly on our hobby!


I've run a few engine lines, and I've never used an age limit, but instead I feel free to tell my exhibitors what to bring! If I know they have something good in the garage, they're not going to get away with an entry ticket. There are other shows around the country that do the same, and it is one method to produce a good quality and varied display. It's not the answer for every show, however...

Discuss!

MP
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Old 05-11-15, 01:24 PM   #23
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In my view from the other side of the ropes, variety is the spice of a good engine line-up - I would no more like to see row upon row of hot bulb Hornsbys than Lister Ds. How the organisers choose to achieve this is their business (they are putting in the graft and potential financial risk of running the event after all) but that should be the aim.

NHH
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Old 05-11-15, 02:01 PM   #24
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Entry ticket engines are not just small modern engines. The entry ticket i saw at one rally was a big(ish) twin cylinder engine (might have been a Lister cant remember now) It ran for 20mins at the start then 15mins at the end of the day. The owner disapeared after the first 20mins & wasnt seen again till the end. This particular owner has done this at every rally i've seen him at (He's well known for it.) I would never normally complain to a steward about this sort of thing but in this case i made an exception. The steward said "yes, but there's not much we can do about it" At the end of the day they awarded the entry ticket "best engine" (Oh he had a for sale ad on the engine too, 600.)
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Old 05-11-15, 02:35 PM   #25
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My opinion, worth little I know, is that there is no such thing as an 'entry ticket' engine but in 20 odd years of exhibiting I have encountered scores of entry ticket owners. Even the smallest of engines can be made interesting if their owners can be bothered to put their minds to it, alas a lot do not. As Novo has said, there are many large and potentially unusual exhibits that stay dormant for all or most of a rally and I have been alongside many of these.
I remember at one well known three day event the chap next to me actually sold his engine on the friday evening and then sat for three days lounging in the sun drinking beer with no exhibit whatsoever. His pal in the next twin axle caravan only ran his D type twice in three days and complained to me that my engine was annoying his wife as she couldn't hear the tv. However the following year they were all back there again.

Regarding date cut-offs, 1950 seems a strange date to me? A lot of early post war engines were still produced after that time, into the 1960's in some cases, but were exactly the same visually to the 1940's versions. I have been refused entry to various events several times over the years, because my exhibit was "not interesting enough" in one case and also when I entered a dairy set it "took too much space up, can't you just bring an engine and pump instead?" so I just don't bother with those rallies even if the stewards (and their opinions) have changed since! They will need me before I need them.........

Pete.
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Old 05-11-15, 09:14 PM   #26
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Wow. It sounds as though you blokes in the UK have a few problems with shows.
I'm sure the numbers of these 'slackers' is slim compared to people wanting to run their engines and displays. Wouldn't these serial 'slackers' be well known and put onto the black list?

Here, we basically turn up and that's that. I have never seen 'entry ticket' engines as most of the engines are either running or getting fixed.
Maybe that's a way of getting rid of the 'entry ticket' people? Make a rule along the lines of "it's either running or it's getting fixed". That would get rid of the 'start them at the start and end or run them for an hour a day' people.
Getting 'fixed' could mean someone is working on it.

You people have to fill in applications stating engines etc etc for shows or something don't you? Does anyone check the engines against the application form?
Or my preferred method is to simply tell people ..."bugger off and don't come back" to the types of 'entry ticket' people described above.

The one bloke who complained about the noise....I would have turned the exhaust towards the van. Stuff them. I hope the organisers of that show were informed of the bad form of that person and they were banned.

One thing about shows here is that very few have people camping next to their engines. All the camping is setup elsewhere.
Another reason we don't have entry ticket type people is we have a lot better places to spend a few days. Option A is to spend 2 or 3 days on at a show ground listening to things go pop pop pop bang, with option B been 2 or 3 days at the beach.

How much does it cost to enter shows to have a look over there?
Here it's usually around the $10 mark with a lot of show less in price.
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Old 05-11-15, 09:25 PM   #27
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I use to organise stationary engine lines at rally's and one year I had a Lister D entered, on the day the D turned up as a lawn mower engine nailed to a rough bit of wood, it arrived in the back of a large 4x4 with one of the biggest caravans in the uk and wasnt seen running all weekend, the next year an application for a form was made which I totally ignored.

Martin P
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Old 05-11-15, 09:31 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
(snip)
How much does it cost to enter shows to have a look over there?
Here it's usually around the $10 mark with a lot of show less in price.
As a visitor, usually somewhere between 5 and 15 - and the more expensive rallies are not necessarily the best by a long chalk!

Exhibitors of course get free entry as they ARE the show and have their own expenses to consider - hence the 'entry ticket' ptoblem where an exhibitor exploits the system to get a weekend's free entertainment and camping for the whole family off the back of a half-arsed exhibit. As Pete said though; there are not really any entry ticket engines, only entry ticket people.

NHH

Last edited by nickh; 05-11-15 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 05-11-15, 10:31 PM   #29
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I seem to recall i ended up faking the age that year to get in and it worked, there were from what i could remember alot of 1949 engines in the program that year i think. The first year i went it was an amazing show and despite my engine hardly running due to the run away problem but the marshal was still pleased to see us there as the vintage lathe we ran on henry's D type got alot of interest. The year after the show really didnt have the same atmosphere and i think there may have been a new marshal. Since then ive given it a miss as its a long way to drive for the show and it falls in a busy time for me now.
I cant stand entry ticket engines specially when they arnt running unless they are some sort of aircooled thing. however what ever rules you put in someone will find a way round it and so youll never stop it sadly.
If someone were to put a bit of time into the engine with a dynamo and a few lights and run it for at least 2-3 hours either side of lunchtime then go and look around the show then im ok with that as there's something vaguely interesting to look at
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Old 05-11-15, 10:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
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I cant stand entry ticket engines specially when they arnt running unless they are some sort of aircooled thing
And a whole other can of worms re-opens - unless of course you meant something like my air-cooled (just!) Barr and Stroud lifeboat set which is only designed to run for ten minutes in the hour

NHH

Last edited by nickh; 05-11-15 at 11:03 PM.
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