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Old 01-06-11, 10:10 PM   #21
Lorrick
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Well we all know where to head for if there is a Tsunami or Tornado warning
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Old 03-07-11, 04:39 PM   #22
martinpaff
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Hi All

Progress on this job has been a little slow while I wait for the blacksmith to finish the columns - the poor bloke works 7 days a week (if somebody was looking for a business opportunity in the East Midlands you could do a lot worse than Steel Fabricator!).

Still, the finished columns arrived today;


This is the first one, straight off the back of his lorry.


...and the second on the trestles. I've been running over it with a flap-disc, prior to getting some primer on.

The columns will be attached to the concrete by M16 S/S studs, resined into the base, 6 at each end. This blighter isn't going to fall down!

Martin.
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Old 03-07-11, 04:54 PM   #23
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Are you building a bunker or an engine shed Martin!

Are you going to use some sort of lifting gear to get the beams into possition or just as many people as you can gather together, they look very heavy.

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Old 03-07-11, 05:58 PM   #24
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The vertical columns aren't too bad - two of us can lift them, although you wouldn't want to carry them far!

The horizontal beam is another story... It's pretty heavy and it takes four people to carry it.

The plan is to assemble it all laying down, and then tip it upright. It may be possible to do it the "old fashioned" way, using props and levers, or I may rope in a friend with a tractor. Once it is upright it has to be positioned accurately and the holes marked on the floor, then moved so that the holes can be drilled (18mm diameter, 220mm deep) and the studs resined in. Once set the whole rig will have to be lifted over the studs and lowered into mortar to bed it. The mortar will allow for fine adjustment to ensure it's upright - that's the plan.

Martin.
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Old 03-07-11, 06:22 PM   #25
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Martin,

What size fixings are you using that requires 18mm holes, its not the Forth Bridge as to erection I would put up the uprights then the beam, if you cant lift the beam without three others then lifting it with the uprights will be impossible.

Martin P
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Old 03-07-11, 06:32 PM   #26
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It would be nice to be able to put it up the way you describe, but impossible. I cannot guarantee how the columns will pull-up when they are bolted down - the only way to be certain that it will all fit together is to assemble it then bolt it down.

The beam is attached to the tops of the columns by 6 M16 bolts and nylocs at each end - the fastenings aren't really doing much work because gravity is keeping it in place. The 18mm holes in the concrete are for M16 resin-studs (info on Rawl's website). These are highly effective and immensely strong, but most importantly (unlike shield anchors) they put no strain on the concrete, so it shouldn't crack-out at the edges (it shouldn't anyway - it's fibre-filled!).

The studs in the concrete are also not really doing much work on the face of it because of gravity, but the beam is also holding the building up, and will have to be able to withstand side forces from all directions, hence the gusseting and sturdy fixings.

Martin.
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Old 03-07-11, 06:52 PM   #27
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What do you intend to do with this beam, are you doing a "Forbes" and over engineering it a little(lot). I would suggest you put up the uprights and loosely bolt them down so they float then put the beam in place. Your going to have to pack the uprights as they are not going to sit level on the concrete anyway.

As to pulling the concrete with sheild anchors it depends how deep the hole is and how near the surface you put them. Where does the strain go when you use resin anchors its still passed through the concrete.

Martin P
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Old 03-07-11, 07:02 PM   #28
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Martin,

At work we hire Genie lifts to put up similar structures on site, bit like a fork lift with a ratchet winch to lift the forks, you place it where you want and lift up to 3.5 metres and move it into position, it can then support the load whilst you level and bolt the uprights down.

Martin P
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Old 03-07-11, 07:04 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lister M View Post
What do you intend to do with this beam, are you doing a "Forbes" and over engineering it a little(lot).
Martin P
Martin and I come from long lines of 'build it to last' engineering families!

Peter
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Old 03-07-11, 07:26 PM   #30
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Martin,

One other thought, when we have similar structures built in the base plates we have nuts welded into the plate with through holes so that we can fit bolts to act as leveling jacks, when all in place we then grout under the plates and around to help support the beam, by the way these beams have three axis robots running up and down so we are looking for 0.1 mm accuracy in all three axis.

Martin P
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