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Old 29-11-17, 10:52 AM   #1
Chris_Owens
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Default Lister JP4? Or some other model?

I'm hoping someone can provide some information on this engine as we haven't been able to identify the model. I've put the photos on lots of engine sites and most think it could be an early model JP4, some say a CS, some say not a CS, some say it could be something else - so we are still all over the place. I purchased an on-line manual for a JP4 and lots looks the same, but the compression levers on mine are on top of the rockers (though some say that was the case with early JP4s), and a few other small differences were apparent.

It's a four cylinder, water cooled, diesel Lister. The only plaque left on it is a small one that states it is 40hp, 1100rpm, and it has the number 4693843 on the plaque as well as on the flywheel. The flywheel also has the number 5142733 impressed in it. We haven't been able to find any other identifying numbers apart from some part numbers cast in to some of the components.

It had been sitting in a paddock in another state about 400km away for over five years and I ducked down the road to get it two weeks back. We've just started restoring it and there's a long way to go. This is a link to a YouTube video showing the first time we started it last week, before we stripped her right back - we just wanted to know if she'd go, and - yes - she fired up. (Just for a minute as the water wasn't hooked up - we'd just done some basic cleaning and repairs and wanted to get an idea of if the engine was going to be a viable project or an anchor). If you don't like following links but want to see the smoky, stuttering first start, you can go to YouTube and search for "Owens family start Lister 4 cylinder diesel for first time".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poWFQZLb4Ws

Thank you if anyone can help - no one else has been able to give a definitive, "Yes, it is definitely a ..." yet, just 'could be' or 'might be this or could be that'.
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Old 29-11-17, 11:03 AM   #2
listerdiesel
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4693843 suggests a JP4 -

469 is the serial number
384 - 38-4 38hp 4 cylinder (38hp at 1000rpm)
3 would be 1953 year.

5142733 is probably the plant number, but could also be from another engine:

514 is the serial number
273 - 27-3 27hp 3 cylinder
3 would be 1953 year.

http://www.oldengine.org/members/die.../384P1data.htm

Remember that this series was known as the 9/1, 18/2, 27/3 etc, not at the JP1, JP2, JP3 and so on.

Peter
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Old 29-11-17, 11:04 AM   #3
PuttPuttBang
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I am no Lister expert, but I believe Doreen Edgington can provide model number, and date first sold and who to. I must say this video brought back to me all the delight of getting an old engine going. Doesn't sound too bad, actually. Maybe it has not too many hours on it ?
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Old 29-11-17, 11:13 AM   #4
listerdiesel
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Keep the easy-start away!

Peter
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Old 29-11-17, 11:50 AM   #5
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'Easy-Start' is a bit more down to earth in the Antipodes - https://www.nulon.com.au/products/ae...engine-starter

NHH
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Old 29-11-17, 07:12 PM   #6
Sean Williams
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Certainly looks like a JP4 to me - I have worked on a JP3 and this looks very similar
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Old 30-11-17, 08:34 AM   #7
Chris_Owens
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Thank you so much, Peter (listerdiesel). That has been the first reply that has really helped. I hadn't realised that the JP4 was known as the 38/4, so that should help with parts.

The old tin of 'Start Ya Bast__d' (easy start) is not usually used, but we Aussies do tend to have a tin at hand for lots of things, from starting engines to killing cockroaches. I'm happy to report, that after this initial start, I hooked the water back up (a temporary garden hose-in, hose-out system as the radiator is out getting restored) and gave it a good run, and she starts easily without the easy-start. The rings on the middle cylinders may have had some carbon on them which has loosened as they are now engaging well and she's running without that great mass of smoke.

Our first big stumbling block is getting the right seal for the water pump, but knowing the model will make it easier. The water pump does seem different from other pumps we've seen on Lister specs - it's a head mounted water pump and has two delivery ports to two ports in the block, and the other ones I've seen are side mounted.

Thanks again everyone!

Chris
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Old 30-11-17, 08:46 AM   #8
Chris_Owens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuttPuttBang View Post
I am no Lister expert, but I believe Doreen Edgington can provide model number, and date first sold and who to. I must say this video brought back to me all the delight of getting an old engine going. Doesn't sound too bad, actually. Maybe it has not too many hours on it ?
If Doreen is on this site, I would certainly like to know that information, and if she's not, I hope someone has contact details. I am certainly happy to pay for information like that. In fact, I'll donate some money to this site right now for the information I've received from this thread as I can see a 'donate' button above this (just donated the equivalent of $10 with a thank you for the information on identifying the 38-4).

Chris.
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Old 30-11-17, 09:05 AM   #9
listerdiesel
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I believe that the early CS (Cold Start) diesel records were lost in an office fire at Dursley, but there's no harm in asking the question.

Doreen isn't a forum member, but someone will pop up with her email address soon.

Thanks for the donation!

Peter
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Old 30-11-17, 09:20 AM   #10
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Perhaps, if the last numeral signifies the year number, it would be a 1943 as this page of production year details says the 38/4 was made from 1931 - 1952.

https://www.stationaryengineparts.co...duction-Dates/

Unfortunately, there seems to be a conflicting problem with 1943 because the injector pump is a CAV not a CAV-Bosch, and I found information that claimed the CAV-Bosch was used until 1945 on the 38-4 and the CAV used after that. The injector pump is CAV serial number EU198. Perhaps the information was incorrect, though, otherwise the CAV injector pump indicates post 1945, but the 3 at the end of the numbers shouldn't be 1953 as production ended in 1952.

The flywheel has both 5142733 AND 4693843 stamped in to it (no spaces, slashes or dashes in the numbers)... I imagine that would that mean the same flywheel could be used on a 27-3 or a 38-4.
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