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Old 08-01-15, 08:13 PM   #1
Lee C
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Default Should my D be like this?

Hi all,

This is all new to me,
I'm stripping my Lister D down after rallying it last year as it has a knock that has worsened, the head is off and the crank door has been removed and I have noticed two things.

1. There is a tiny amount of play (side to side) in the piston.

2. I can't detect any up and down play in the big end but there is side movement allowing the conrod to slide along the bronze bush allowing it to knock side to side,

Are any of the above acceptable? I'm guessing not, it makes me think something is missing from the big end but I don't know.

Any clarification, hints and tips most welcome.

Cheers
Lee
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Old 10-01-15, 12:48 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee C View Post
Hi all,

This is all new to me,
I'm stripping my Lister D down after rallying it last year as it has a knock that has worsened, the head is off and the crank door has been removed and I have noticed two things.

1. There is a tiny amount of play (side to side) in the piston.

2. I can't detect any up and down play in the big end but there is side movement allowing the conrod to slide along the bronze bush allowing it to knock side to side,

Are any of the above acceptable? I'm guessing not, it makes me think something is missing from the big end but I don't know.

Any clarification, hints and tips most welcome.

Cheers
Lee
Hi Lee,

I do believe that this is normal, and it is acceptable. Don't take my word for it, I'm sure one of the more knowledgeable chaps will be along soon enough

Tim
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Old 10-01-15, 07:32 PM   #3
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thats about normal on a d type....clonk will be small end or big end..
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Old 11-01-15, 11:30 PM   #4
Lee C
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Thanks for the replies, Ive stripped it further and removed the crank, piston and conrod, there is no play in the small end, the big end has score marks in the bush and there is the minutist of play. The crank is spotless so am hoping a new big end bush will cure. I'm also renewing the piston rings and regrinding the valves while I'm at it.

Cheers
Lee
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Old 12-01-15, 12:14 AM   #5
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The knock could be just piston slap if the bore is worn or, in the case of one of my D types, a tooth missing on one of the timing gears!

Pete.
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Old 12-01-15, 01:27 PM   #6
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A 'knocking' sound on a Lister D can just be badly adjusted tappets, the noise of which can be amplified through the fuel tank, particularly if the felt pads between the tank and the cylinder head are missing. Also, check the ignition timing is right.

When putting the engine back together make sure you put the con rod back the right way round, as it's not a mirror image of itself and there is a flat side to it. I can never remember which way round it fits, but I'm sure someone on here will tell you! I usually have to look it up in the 'Lister D Restoration Book,' which is a handy book to get (available from Stationary Engine Books and the Internal Fire Museum shop). Hope this is useful.
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Old 12-01-15, 01:38 PM   #7
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I can tell you from recent-ish experience that if your big end has minute play then just wipe it clean, carefully remove high spots and refit, I replaced my Lister F big end, same as D, as it had lost all of its white metal when the dipper came off, the new big end had play when fitted but doesn't knock, don't forget to oil it when you reassemble the engine, oil everything in fact.

Martin P
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Old 12-01-15, 07:44 PM   #8
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Default lister d knock

Hi
i have come across a knock on an engine before which i thought was a big end,and it turned out to be the flywheel gib key,gave it a tap in and it cured it.
jim
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Old 23-01-15, 07:47 AM   #9
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Thanks for the replies,
The knock is a regular (with every revolution) clonk clonk clonk, it is actually worse when the engine is warmed up.

I have new piston rings that I orderd from stationary engine parts Ltd too, some questions I have are:-

1. the new rings have noticeably more depth i.e. There diameter will be greater in the bore, is this because my old rings are worn down and will it reduce possible slap?

2. Do I need to know any special running in tips after fitting new rings? oil type etc.

3. The oils scraper rings are very differnt, the old oil scraper ring is solid and simply bevelled where as the new one is bevelled but also has slots which presumably let the oil through the holes in the piston?

Thanks for your help so far.

Lee
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Old 23-01-15, 12:25 PM   #10
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Assuming you've never fitted new rings before: You will need to 'gap' your new rings to make sure they are not too tight in the bore. You will also need to lightly hone the bore, to get rid of any glazed surface so the new rings bed in. There are a number of threads about doing that on the forum, so have a look via the search facility and see if you can find them (unless someone could provide a link to a suitable thread? ).

If not, come back and ask for some guidance... if you make a pig's ear of things you'll have wasted your time and money, and possibly even damaged your engine! Someone on here will be able to tell you the correct gap for Lister D rings if you can't find the info on an existing thread.

Gapping rings, fitting them to pistons, and honing bores are useful skills to have, but can take a bit of practice to get right. Working on the principle that 'one show is worth 1000 tells' it might be best if you have a suitably experienced friend show you how to do this before having a go yourself? Or you could take the block, piston and rings to a good engineering company and ask them to hone the bore and gap and fit the rings for you? They shouldn't charge much for this, but get a quote first!

If all else fails then search the internet for instructions and photos; there are some 'how to' videos on Youtube, but as with all things, some of these may be better than others! Be careful when fitting the rings to the piston as they can easily snap, especially in cold weather, so it might be as well to make sure the rings and piston are 'room temperature' before fitting them.

You shouldn't need any special 'running in' oil, just a good quality SAE 30 like 'Morris Golden Film' should be fine. Oil the bore and the sides of the piston well before putting it back into the bore. I usually run the engine on its own to get it up to running temperature to make sure it's running and sounding OK. After that, I run it on a medium load (usually at it's first show/rally) to bed the rings in, I find driving something like a dynamo is good for this. Change the engine oil after an hour's running, and again after a few days running, and you should be sorted.

As with anything, if you don't feel confident to do this, then ask for help or contract the job out to someone who is. Hope this is useful, if anyone else can add to this (or disagrees) then please speak up!
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Last edited by 'A' Lister; 23-01-15 at 12:41 PM.
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