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Old 01-11-13, 11:28 AM   #21
Windrush
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Originally Posted by Appletop View Post
I just checked, I've got 305 rivets that are 5/16 and 209 rivets that are a 1/4...

Does that make me qualify for "The Golden Rivet"?
Not really, but does it qualify you for the 'Bored out of my Skull' award, get your head under a sink or something!

Pete.
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Old 01-11-13, 11:46 AM   #22
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To keep the rivet counters happy....Early 'D' with Rivets....no golden ones!
Andy.
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Old 01-11-13, 11:53 AM   #23
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The golden one is at the bottom of the hopper - you have to bend right over to see it ;-)

NHH
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Old 01-11-13, 12:17 PM   #24
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The golden one is at the bottom of the hopper - you have to bend right over to see it ;-)

NHH
It's your turn in the barrel Nick, Rob's next :crazy:
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Old 01-11-13, 12:28 PM   #25
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It's your turn in the barrel Nick, Rob's next :crazy:
It was my turn last month!!!!
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Old 01-11-13, 12:56 PM   #26
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It was my turn last month!!!!
Are you sure its a cold you've got Rob. Maybe you're just full. (Oh I shouldn't have said that)
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Old 01-11-13, 01:01 PM   #27
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Yuck!!!

Oh, hang on.....

You could be right!
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Old 01-11-13, 11:28 PM   #28
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Let's face it Scott, these things are 80+ years old and (especially ex plant hire engines) will have had many alterations during their working life so parts will get swapped over. I have two early D's, a 1928 and a spec 12 from 1930, plus a couple of later ones, some have screw on plates and some rivetted yet all were in original paint when I purchased them. The original exhausts have long gone, so what? They broke in service and were replaced with the newer type, nobody quibbles about (say) a 1973 Ford Cortina having a different exhaust!:confused: My 1928 model D has a float chamber, probably fitted during an overhaul to improve running, whoever fitted it in perhaps 1934 wasn't concerned about what an engine enthusiast thought 80 years later.
The same with magneto's, all they wanted was a working engine! Just enjoy the engine for what it is and dont worry too much about the 'rivet counters', that's my opinion for what it's worth!

Pete.
As I mentioned earlier each engine has it's own personality and things do get changed as years go by.
But what is wrong in learning what changes were made to these engines and when?
Initially I asked what is wrong with this engine and one of the first comments was
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Originally Posted by danthetangye View Post
Nice engine. Bits that stand out to me are the hideous water drain tap, lack of fuel tap, possibly the wrong type of ML magneto (which if it works OK is probably best left alone), and being really picky the governor spring is not the original conical style, and the ID tags on the crankcase door would have been held on with rivets rather than screws.
Regards,

Dan
I put the tap in so tough. I like it and that's that. So if I put a 1/4" tap on is it supposed to have a straight spout or a droopy one?
Lack of fuel tap. Well there wasn't supposed to be one.
Possibly wrong type of ML. If you know so much what IS the right type?
Governor spring. Well, that's correct.
ID screws. Some had them and some did not. Simple.
So this bloke has said what is wrong with this little engine. 1, possibly 2, things out of 5 items correct. Not a bad number of incorrectly identified faults for a 1929 Spec 11D engine.

What is wrong in trying to get the correct exhaust identified? Maybe one is located in a flea market but you would not know as you were looking for a tin muffler with Lister stamped into the front. I have only had this engine for a few weeks and already people have said to me "that muffler is wrong" and point to my other d and say "get another one of those"

So called experts (or rivet counters) appear at rallies and, to be blunt, they generally know absolutely nothing about the engine they're criticizing.
There is so much mis-information about it is scary. Any one wanting to learn and then read this thread would simply be confused, appalled or have learned things that were incorrect.
Is there anything wrong in trying to compile the correct information?

Personally I would like to know when things got changed on these engines but I could not care less if this little engine was 'wrong' in it's many aspects.
This little engine will remain as is (except paint) as that's how my old mate left it and that's how his old mate left it.
As it turns out about the only things 'wrong' with this little engine is the governor spring and magneto.

So who can tell me.
1) when did Lister go from 2 piece top to one piece and then back to two piece on D's?
2) why did some have rivets and some have screws holding the ID plates?
3) when did Lister go to the bolt on oil level checker? Answer: July 1930 (thanks to the same kind member that dated it).
4) when did the wing nuts come standard issue and when were they not?
5) what differences are there in the Ricardo head and the standard Lister head? Why did they use the Ricardo head?

Does anybody know why Lister made all the changes to the humble D over the years? I'd like to know why. Why would I like to know? Curiosity and the thirst for knowledge.

In a train station carpark the type of muffler on a Cortina would not make any difference at all to the vast majority. To some collectors it would matter.
To me I could not care less what muffler THAT Cortina had on it BUT I would like to know (if I was interested in Cortina's) that a 1 1/4" offset inlet and outlet oval shaped Lukey muffler was original fitment.

There is a difference in knowing what's correct and thinking you know what's correct.
I'm simply trying to find out what is correct fitment for this engine.

Cheers Scott
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Old 01-11-13, 11:48 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
As I mentioned earlier each engine has it's own personality and things do get changed as years go by.
But what is wrong in learning what changes were made to these engines and when?
Initially I asked what is wrong with this engine and one of the first comments was


I put the tap in so tough. I like it and that's that. So if I put a 1/4" tap on is it supposed to have a straight spout or a droopy one?
Lack of fuel tap. Well there wasn't supposed to be one.
Possibly wrong type of ML. If you know so much what IS the right type?
Governor spring. Well, that's correct.
ID screws. Some had them and some did not. Simple.
So this bloke has said what is wrong with this little engine. 1, possibly 2, things out of 5 items correct. Not a bad number of incorrectly identified faults for a 1929 Spec 11D engine.


Is there anything wrong in trying to compile the correct information?

Personally I would like to know when things got changed on these engines but I could not care less if this little engine was 'wrong' in it's many aspects.
This little engine will remain as is (except paint) as that's how my old mate left it and that's how his old mate left it.
As it turns out about the only things 'wrong' with this little engine is the governor spring and magneto.

So who can tell me.
1) when did Lister go from 2 piece top to one piece and then back to two piece on D's?
2) why did some have rivets and some have screws holding the ID plates?
3) when did Lister go to the bolt on oil level checker? Answer: July 1930 (thanks to the same kind member that dated it).
4) when did the wing nuts come standard issue and when were they not?
5) what differences are there in the Ricardo head and the standard Lister head? Why did they use the Ricardo head?

Does anybody know why Lister made all the changes to the humble D over the years? I'd like to know why. Why would I like to know? Curiosity and the thirst for knowledge.

In a train station carpark the type of muffler on a Cortina would not make any difference at all to the vast majority. To some collectors it would matter.
To me I could not care less what muffler THAT Cortina had on it BUT I would like to know (if I was interested in Cortina's) that a 1 1/4" offset inlet and outlet oval shaped Lukey muffler was original fitment.

There is a difference in knowing what's correct and thinking you know what's correct.
I'm simply trying to find out what is correct fitment for this engine.

Cheers Scott
I stand by my comments, and they have provoked healthy discussion. I was wrong on the fuel tap admittedly but the other points show that often it is impossible to tell what the original spec was. Even original literature shows a degree of artistic licence in places.

In your quest for further information have you got this book? http://www.stationaryenginebooks.co.uk/listerDtype.htm

Dan
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Old 01-11-13, 11:55 PM   #30
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Scott, for what its worth, I reckon the diesel tank drain tap being used is unsightly and lets the engine down big style , surely the correct Lister drain tap can be fitted to help this little early d look her best.

Jon
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