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Old 05-06-18, 11:35 PM   #1
M0GXB
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Default Villiers F15 governor problem

Can anyone recognise this problem I have with a Villiers F15...

Although the governor seems to "work" in the sense that the governor arm moves appropriately, the issue is that the action is not at all proportionate, so that instead of holding a constant 2400rpm I am finding that it starts with full throttle but as soon as it starts to go it quickly closes the throttle, and conversely when the engine finds the load too much and splutters to a halt it whacks open the throttle just as it stops.

The manual unhelpfully has nothing much to say about the governor, claiming it was set up in the factory.
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Old 06-06-18, 06:20 AM   #2
martinpaff
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I know nothing about the F15, but in general terms it sounds like the governor spring has gone/broken.

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Old 06-06-18, 09:14 AM   #3
woodsman
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As Martin says, check governor spring.
Do the weights move freely?
Is the governor / carb link set correctly - as per manual.
Is the link tight on the governor shaft?
Is throttle adjustment screw set appropriately?
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Old 06-06-18, 09:32 AM   #4
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By "the governor spring" do you mean the external spring that pulls the governor arm upwards?

I ask this because it seems to me that this spring is way too light to be more than a small correction to the basic action.
I was wondering if there were big springs inside the engine that the weights bear against and it is these that are broken?

The effect I am seeing is as if the external spring needs to be seriously strong.

In answer to your questions:
- I can't tell what the weights are doing without gutting it.
- The manual is quite unhelpful on matters relating to the governor.
- The link is very tight on the shaft and I did have a grapple with this and had a weird problem as a result. So while struggling to get the clamp loose I ended up with "something changing" in that the arm, with engine stopped suddenly had much less float on it than before. I ran the engine and found it was now totally broken (arm not moving at all). Fiddled with it again and it got back as it was. I assumed I had jammed it somehow but not sure how.
- The throttle screw is just the minimum setting and I currently have it set to give about 2000rpm when totally off load (so it starts). When the engine runs it seems that the governor is just lifting the throttle a tiny bit when off load, which seemed a good sign. But as I said, it doesn't seem to respond until the rpm is very low and then the action is rather large. It is as if it is sticking, but if so it must be sticking in both directions which seemed unlikely.

One thing: when stopped, so the arm is up, I notice that there is a lot of float on it in that if the spring was not there the arm would just fall to the down position (it doesn't contact the inner mechanism until it is right up). Does that sound typical? The governor pulls the arm down rapidly as the engine starts to spin.
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Old 06-06-18, 10:16 AM   #5
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Could be the steel weights on the nylon governor gear in the crankcase have broken up, quite common and worth dropping the baseplate off and checking them.



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Old 06-06-18, 04:40 PM   #6
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Maybe a duff spring. You can get a new one here;

https://www.lsengineers.co.uk/villie...or-spring.html
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Old 06-06-18, 05:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windrush View Post
Could be the steel weights on the nylon governor gear in the crankcase have broken up, quite common and worth dropping the baseplate off and checking them.



Pete.
Unfortunately you need to pull the output end case off on the F15 o get to the governor assembly.

F15 governer by Robert Starr, on Flickr

Stuart.
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Old 06-06-18, 06:22 PM   #8
martinpaff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M0GXB View Post
I can't tell what the weights are doing without gutting it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotstar5 View Post
Unfortunately you need to pull the output end case off...
Forgive me for "going off on one", but...

We all know that a few of the forum members only joined because their mower is broken and they're too tight-a***d to take it to the mower centre to be fixed - they would rather come on here and pick the corporate brain.

For the rest of us, this hobby is about collecting and/or restoring and/or showing stationary engines. This means that at some point you need to get your hands dirty (don't worry; it will wash off!)

By all means, come to the forum first and see if there is an easy answer, but then; TAKE IT TO PIECES!

Do it carefully and methodically, if you are unsure, take pictures as you go. Get inside the beast and work out how it works - these things are invariably very simple! (A Villiers is not a RR Merlin - trust me!) As you gain knowledge and experience, you will find the confidence to dismantle (and correctly re-assemble) almost anything, but you can't do it without trying. Don't be concerned that you might make a mistake (the man who never made a mistake, never made anything) - mistakes happen, and just add to the fun.

So let's have no more "unfortunately" or avoiding "gutting it" - it's a simple mechanical machine that is just waiting for you to explore - get inside!

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Old 06-06-18, 07:09 PM   #9
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Well said that man...!!

As the saying goes, ' a faint heart never....( err well there are variations involving fair maidens or pigs....)

Just to illustrate further, my 13 plate Passat needed its cam belt changing....dealer quoted 600.... Including parts and the 'required tooling' I did it myself for 230.... And no cock ups....a subtle difference between the family car and a static engine....

Go for it... The learning experience us priceless...
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Old 06-06-18, 07:29 PM   #10
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We just spent a very long time fixing one thing after another. Every part of it was duff in some way (yet was sold to me as fully working).

So while I agree it would be fun to strip it down, it also has a job to do. We like to actually use vintage technology, not just gawp at it. I am also concerned not to break it as I am not aware of parts being to easy to obtain. For example I had a lot of trouble sorting the carb which was totally wrecked by corrosion.

Now our other vintage device, a Ferguson TEA20 seems to need a load of work just now and is currently not available to use until I can secure some repair kits and spend a load of time taking it apart again. It too has a bizarre history (why does it have vacuum advance fitted for example).
This leaves the Allen Scythe to do work that will not wait. Having had the F15 sitting in the workshop for a year I finally got fed up with it not working so fixed the remaining stuff and converted the ignition to be more like a car (as the magneto magnets seem to be too weak) and put it all together with what looked like a working engine, only to find it was bluffing with the duff governor.

I have never worked on a governor of a small engine before and so I was hoping that someone would spot something in my description as tell me that it was a well known issue. It might be as trivial as having the wrong spring fitted by the previous owner, or it might need a rebuild of the whole governor mechanism - and if something is broken I guess I would have to make a new part.

Oh, and I am not aware that our lawn mower dealer will be interested to help with either an Allen Scythe or a Ferguson TEA20 even if I wanted them to.
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