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Old 17-12-16, 11:59 AM   #1
Garak
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Arrow Gaskets and Ignition Timing

Is it advisable to add a slight smear of general purpose grease to both sides of thin paper gaskets before installation?

In Nigel McBurney book Lister D-Type Restoration he suggests that for a show engine that is not driving any other machinery an ignition timing setting of 10 degrees before TDC is better for the engine than the standard 20 degrees.
On my engine the flywheel has been skimmed at some point in it's life so the original timing marks are not present and although no TDC mark can be found there is a letter 'T' stamped on the flywheel.

I have determined TDC by using a bent piece of copper wire through the spark plug hole and feeling when the piston reaches the top of the stroke and then starts to descend and I have temporarily marked the flywheel (at my determined TDC the flywheel key-way is at the bottom of the shaft)

Now looking at my TDC mark the stamped 'T' (timing) mark is one and a quarter inches before TDC (my engine is a reverse rotation model so the 'T' is seen to the left of the TDC mark)

Is this 1 1/4" position a good place to start or should I set the full 20 degrees and go from there when I see how she runs?
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Last edited by Garak; 17-12-16 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 17-12-16, 02:14 PM   #2
slatteybarn
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That would be a good place to start.If nobody else comes up with a more definative answer before tomorrow I will pop over to the farm and measure both of my D's.
There in no harm in a little grease on the gaskets but dont over do it as the gasket may tear when removing covers next time.
Regards
Phil.
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Old 17-12-16, 02:45 PM   #3
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Just to confuse you and contradict Slatteybarn, sorry Phil, I fit my gaskets dry because I find grease will go hard over time and trap the gasket when you remove covers, I grease the head gasket to allow it to move when tightening down.
I also run my D's at factory settings and they run quiet happily, there are several different diameters of flywheels so dont rely on the 1.25 in, measure the circumference and divide by 360 then multiply by what ever degree's you want to use.
The TDC relates to the flywheel key, cant remember if key on top or bottom though

Martin P
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Old 17-12-16, 04:18 PM   #4
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While preparing a photograph of the stamped 'T' and my TDC mark on the flywheel I noticed (on the photograph) what looks to be a vertical line and a inverted 'T' on the block, if this is what this is it looks likes someone has already timed the engine and placed the marks for future reference. I had not noticed the marks on the block until I was looking at the photo in Photoshop.

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Old 17-12-16, 04:31 PM   #5
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For your timing you require: a tape measure (a dress makers from last year's xmas cracker is good enough), and a calculator.

Measure the circumference of your flywheel in mm; lets say the result is 1118mm.

Divide by 360 - result 3.1mm. Every degree on the flywheel crown is 3.1mm.

Measure TDC to your timing mark in mm - lets say 31.75mm. Divide by 1 degree (3.1) - result just over 10 degrees.

Now you need to plug in your own figures, measured from your engine. This works for (just about) any engine, any size of flywheel.

MP
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Old 17-12-16, 04:32 PM   #6
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Hi Garak,
Just following on from Martin's post - when the flywheel key is at 6 o'clock then you have TDC.
The point ref flywheel circumference is a good one,and the method of calculating the degree setting is the one I used on my 'D' without any problems at all.It might be advisable to try this method and see how it relates to the marks on the flywheel that you mention.
Good luck!
Kev.
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Old 18-12-16, 09:06 PM   #7
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So, I'm confident I've found TDC (using the bent wire in the plug hole method), both valves are closed and the flywheel key is at the 6 o'clock position.

My flywheel is 1112mm in circumference, so divided by 360 = 3.08mm. My stamped timing mark is 31mm from my TDC mark so it's as close to 10 degrees as makes no difference. I'm gong to see how it runs at this setting and adjust if necessary.

On more quick question, is the flywheel and gib key dry fitted or is a little lubrication advisable?

Thanks all for the continuing help and support
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Old 18-12-16, 10:00 PM   #8
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Not sure if there's a "proper" answer, but I fit the flywheel dry and lightly oil the key to make sure it goes in without picking up.

MP
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Old 26-12-16, 10:47 PM   #9
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Default lightening bolt

I thought I could see witness of the lightening bolt mark for firing still on flywheel.
It starts halfway between the e of here ( "t" (timing) stamped here) and the left hand end of the red arrow line.

marks zigzags from between where I've described down picture going diagonal right then left then right then left then right then left

Ive tried marking box round it. I would say this is approx. distance the mark on my larger flywheeled 500rpm engine is from TDC ( other side with mine being CW engine)
My image is lower quality so look at area on original picture in Garak's post
Attached Images
File Type: jpg anti timing marks.jpg (84.7 KB, 44 views)

Last edited by cccst70; 26-12-16 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 27-12-16, 02:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cccst70 View Post
I thought I could see witness of the lightening bolt mark for firing still on flywheel.
It starts halfway between the e of here ( "t" (timing) stamped here) and the left hand end of the red arrow line.

marks zigzags from between where I've described down picture going diagonal right then left then right then left then right then left

Ive tried marking box round it. I would say this is approx. distance the mark on my larger flywheeled 500rpm engine is from TDC ( other side with mine being CW engine)
My image is lower quality so look at area on original picture in Garak's post
Can't see anything myself even with a strong magnifying glass.

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