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Old 28-03-17, 02:29 PM   #1
Chiefy.
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Default Running Villiers and BSA on Bottled gas.

I Like the idea of running my engines on bottled LPG any pointers on how to do this would be helpful eg, do i need to replace the carb if so with what ie some sort of valve i can make a valve in the workshop,are there any drawings out there.
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Old 28-03-17, 02:55 PM   #2
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I can't find a picture on line but Villiers own LPG conversion replaces the bottom half of the carb with what is really not much more than a venturi with a gas pipe sticking into it. That and the usual demand valve seems to be all that was required.

Villiers supplied plenty of LPG Mk 10 and 12 engined generators and pumps to the GPO.

NHH
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Old 28-03-17, 03:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickh View Post
I can't find a picture on line but Villiers own LPG conversion replaces the bottom half of the carb with what is really not much more than a venturi with a gas pipe sticking into it. That and the usual demand valve seems to be all that was required.

Villiers supplied plenty of LPG Mk 10 and 12 engined generators and pumps to the GPO.

NHH
Thanks for that nickh;385456 i had heard that villiers did their own LPG conversion and these were the smaller mk10/12s mine are the larger mk 25/20sand only one has villiers carb this looks identical to the motorcycle engine carb the rest are high speed engines with Zenith carbs, i do not know if this will create problems for conversion of these engines!!?.
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Old 28-03-17, 03:54 PM   #4
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Ah, it's the little B10 carb I was thinking of (was going to convert my MK 10 gen set but ended up getting rid of it). I expect the principle of a venturi and nozzle will be the same for other types but presume sizing must be critical to get the mixture right.

NHH
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Old 28-03-17, 04:32 PM   #5
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This can definitely be done, but it's not something to play at - it's far too dangerous! You're dealing with an invisible, heavier-than-air fuel, that can hang around on the floor.

As Nick says, BSA/Villiers supplied gennies to the GPO, and their Calor regulator/demand valve pairs appear on ebay from time to time.

Based only on my own experience, you need 4 things: 1. A gas bottle and regulator (normal 37mBar is fine), a demand valve (calor made them in the distant past, now Impco Garretson KN is best), a control valve (your mixture control), and a replacement for the carb.

The carb part is by far the simplest and cheapest of those, it could be little more than a block with a venturi hole and a gas jet.

The control needs to be a gas type valve, that has a fairly fine adjustment. You'll find that the mixture control is very sensitive.

The regulator is an off-the-shelf item, and they are quite cheap.

...which leaves the demand valve! A KN is about 90, but it is possible to convert a disused regulator to a demand valve. There are some sketches in my Album, and this has been discussed on the forum before on several occasions.

Your problem is that you will be trying to invent all of it, with only the regulator a "known quantity". It is quite tricky to get the initial set-up for gas, because it is very easy to flood the engine, and you can't see the fuel!

You may decide that it's just not worth this much effort (and expense), with no guarantee of success. On the other hand, if you enjoy experimenting and don't care if it doesn't work - go for it (but be careful).

MP

Edit: These folks do exactly what you are suggesting for Honda generators - you'll notice it's not cheap! http://www.edgetechnology.co.uk/inde...sion-kits.html
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Old 28-03-17, 11:26 PM   #6
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I'm with Martin, they are extremely hard to get the mixture just right to run smoothly and can be nothing but problems from there on in. I had a few small briggs engines on lpg and they were never any fun to use. A couple of tips I can give, invest in the right valves and regulators, close the gap on your spark plug to about ten thou and make a mixer. The mixer is basically a plate with lots of little holes drilled in it to mix the lpg and air intake together otherwise you wont get a smooth ignition. Another good idea is to have an electric solenoid so unless the key is in the run position no gas can seep through, we had some nice loud pops in the early days of working it out.
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Old 29-03-17, 10:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickh View Post
Ah, it's the little B10 carb I was thinking of (was going to convert my MK 10 gen set but ended up getting rid of it). I expect the principle of a venturi and nozzle will be the same for other types but presume sizing must be critical to get the mixture right.

NHH
That,s right the villiers gen set appears to use the little B10 carb which i do not have.
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Old 29-03-17, 10:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinpaff View Post
This can definitely be done, but it's not something to play at - it's far too dangerous! You're dealing with an invisible, heavier-than-air fuel, that can hang around on the floor.

As Nick says, BSA/Villiers supplied gennies to the GPO, and their Calor regulator/demand valve pairs appear on ebay from time to time.

Based only on my own experience, you need 4 things: 1. A gas bottle and regulator (normal 37mBar is fine), a demand valve (calor made them in the distant past, now Impco Garretson KN is best), a control valve (your mixture control), and a replacement for the carb.

The carb part is by far the simplest and cheapest of those, it could be little more than a block with a venturi hole and a gas jet.

The control needs to be a gas type valve, that has a fairly fine adjustment. You'll find that the mixture control is very sensitive.

The regulator is an off-the-shelf item, and they are quite cheap.

...which leaves the demand valve! A KN is about 90, but it is possible to convert a disused regulator to a demand valve. There are some sketches in my Album, and this has been discussed on the forum before on several occasions.

Your problem is that you will be trying to invent all of it, with only the regulator a "known quantity". It is quite tricky to get the initial set-up for gas, because it is very easy to flood the engine, and you can't see the fuel!

You may decide that it's just not worth this much effort (and expense), with no guarantee of success. On the other hand, if you enjoy experimenting and don't care if it doesn't work - go for it (but be careful).

MP

Edit: These folks do exactly what you are suggesting for Honda generators - you'll notice it's not cheap! http://www.edgetechnology.co.uk/inde...sion-kits.html
Thanks for that martinpaff it sounds as though it is tricky to set up and like you say can be dangerous, and i have always hankered after a Villiers WX11 hopper cooled and would not run a 2 stroke on LPG, so i will shelve the project and keep looking for a WX11.
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Old 29-03-17, 10:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karragullengine View Post
I'm with Martin, they are extremely hard to get the mixture just right to run smoothly and can be nothing but problems from there on in. I had a few small briggs engines on lpg and they were never any fun to use. A couple of tips I can give, invest in the right valves and regulators, close the gap on your spark plug to about ten thou and make a mixer. The mixer is basically a plate with lots of little holes drilled in it to mix the lpg and air intake together otherwise you wont get a smooth ignition. Another good idea is to have an electric solenoid so unless the key is in the run position no gas can seep through, we had some nice loud pops in the early days of working it out.
Hi Karragullengine Thanks for that see my post to Martin i understand the difficulties and danger involved and no guarantee of success so i have shelved the idea and will continue to look for a WX11 which would not be run on LPG.
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Old 29-03-17, 02:07 PM   #10
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Just for the sake of completeness, here are a few pics of the gas body which fits the B30 carb. Might help someone to recognise one in those interesting boxes of bits at a sale.

NHH
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1010257.jpg (94.0 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg P1010262.jpg (138.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg P1010258.jpg (95.1 KB, 23 views)

Last edited by nickh; 29-03-17 at 02:40 PM.
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