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Old 20-02-13, 12:19 PM   #1
AdeV
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Default Vegetable oil

As Diesel prices continue to shoot up - even Red diesel costs 80p/litre now, it won't be long before brand new veg oil (available for just shy of £1/litre in Makro) will actually be cheaper to run...

Presumably, with new oil, one doesn't need to faff about with filtering & centrifuging, etc., do you still get that "chippy" smell from new oil?

So, a question - which is likely to be "better" (more energy content), soya oil or rapeseed oil? These seem to be the cheapest cooking oils...
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Old 20-02-13, 12:36 PM   #2
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I used to run my LDV Convoy with Bosch pump on 70/30 veg/derv during the summer Ade, and vice vera during the winter... Lucas pumps and single rail engines are not keen on it though without pre-heating ect... these old diesel stationary engines of ours will run on pretty well anything...

Alan.
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Old 20-02-13, 02:27 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdeV View Post
As Diesel prices continue to shoot up - even Red diesel costs 80p/litre now, it won't be long before brand new veg oil (available for just shy of £1/litre in Makro) will actually be cheaper to run...

Presumably, with new oil, one doesn't need to faff about with filtering & centrifuging, etc., do you still get that "chippy" smell from new oil?

So, a question - which is likely to be "better" (more energy content), soya oil or rapeseed oil? These seem to be the cheapest cooking oils...
SVO doesn't require filtering, however it does still really need a heat exchanger on the car to thin it down.
Diesel has a calorific value of 44,800 KJ/Kg
Vegetable oil, dependent on type 39,000 - 48,000 KJ/Kg
That said, I find my Land Rover runs far better on vegetable oil than on diesel, Its much smoother and quieter, with more torque. Or that is, until I get a blocked filter.
Modern direct injection engines need a twin tank system to stop unburnt vegetable oil gumming the piston rings up, I run this system on mine, with an electric change over valve. I run on diesel round town and warming up, but on anything more than about 5 miles, I switch over to veg. I'm using waste vegetable oil filtered down to 1 micron, when I can get it, outer wise its 10l bottles of SVO from Farmfoods.
Rapeseed oil is generally considered best, Soya is a bit thick for use other than in really warm weather. All of them give a lovely chip shop smell!!!
If your looking for more advise, have a look here They know far more than I do...
HTH
Andrew
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Old 20-02-13, 02:31 PM   #4
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You will still get the smell from new oil.
Rapeseed and sunflower oil has a lower jell point, so better for winter use, but is more costly. All the cheap oils are soya or soya based. Iíve been using soya for years and had no problems. What type of engine do you intend to use it in?
Mark.
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Old 20-02-13, 03:15 PM   #5
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Cheers guys,

Intended use would be a Lister CS or CD, the CS as a power plant, the CD will be a compressor/possibly power plant as well. I'm not sure whether to do the "traditional" dual-fuel (start/stop on Diesel, run on pre-heated veg oil when warm), or single fuel (veg only) with injector line preheat for cold-starting on oil.

I do realise that I will have to fry my chips in red diesel (as per someone's sig, sorry I've forgotten your name)... I feel this is a sacrifice worth making
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Old 20-02-13, 04:07 PM   #6
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Never felt the urge to go that route, always ran my engines on 'proper' diesel, be it red or white.

Philip had a Vauxhall Combo with the Isuzu engine, it ran OK on a mixture of new veg oil and diesel, but after a while he started getting problems so switched back to diesel.

Runs a Discovery V8 now....

Peter
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Old 20-02-13, 04:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdeV View Post
As Diesel prices continue to shoot up - even Red diesel costs 80p/litre now, it won't be long before brand new veg oil (available for just shy of £1/litre in Makro) will actually be cheaper to run...

Presumably, with new oil, one doesn't need to faff about with filtering & centrifuging, etc., do you still get that "chippy" smell from new oil?

So, a question - which is likely to be "better" (more energy content), soya oil or rapeseed oil? These seem to be the cheapest cooking oils...
If fuel prices keep on rising so will the price of veg oil and every thing else as well.
If using diesel for none road use then heating oil is all ways going to be cheaper than veg oil and less trouble.

If your going to buy fuel of any kind to use in a generator to make electricity, your better of buying your electric from the national grid as it works out cheaper.


Matthew
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Old 20-02-13, 05:52 PM   #8
AdeV
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Originally Posted by spencer1885 View Post
If using diesel for none road use then heating oil is all ways going to be cheaper than veg oil and less trouble.
Heating oil does not have the lubricity of Diesel or veg oil, I believe this can lead to injector pump seizure.

How much is kero per litre these days? I haven't looked.

PS: The generator would be standby rather than replacing NG; however, if I ever lose access to my 415v 3-phase supply, I will be able to use the Lister for that, and since all my machines are 3-phase...
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Old 20-02-13, 06:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdeV View Post
Heating oil does not have the lubricity of Diesel or veg oil, I believe this can lead to injector pump seizure.

How much is kero per litre these days? I haven't looked.

PS: The generator would be standby rather than replacing NG; however, if I ever lose access to my 415v 3-phase supply, I will be able to use the Lister for that, and since all my machines are 3-phase...
Using Kero is not a problem as long as you add a small amount of oil for lubrication
Lister and Gardener and probably many others talk about using Kero in the owners manual.

Last time I look the price was about 60p per litre.
It is cheaper to buy in the summer.


Matthew
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Old 20-02-13, 08:56 PM   #10
Bottleveg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdeV View Post
Cheers guys,

Intended use would be a Lister CS or CD, the CS as a power plant, the CD will be a compressor/possibly power plant as well. I'm not sure whether to do the "traditional" dual-fuel (start/stop on Diesel, run on pre-heated veg oil when warm), or single fuel (veg only) with injector line preheat for cold-starting on oil.

I do realise that I will have to fry my chips in red diesel (as per someone's sig, sorry I've forgotten your name)... I feel this is a sacrifice worth making
The CS and CD will run ok on veg. One of the problems with soya is itís a semi drying oil, so it dries out and sets when left in contact with the air. Not a problem on a vehicle but stationary engines tend to leak a bit of oil around the pump so, if not cleaned, it will gum the rack up.
As far as twin tanking goes. It depends how often the engine is run and the temperature itís stored at. Soya oil starts to crystallise around 12c so you will get flow problems at around 6c.
As Matthew says, heating oil is probably a better bet and add around 10% veg for lubrication.
Mark.
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